"If I move, do I still get to go to your church?"

I have just spent the morning listening to Mark Driscoll's lecture on Seattle Demographics & Culture (thanks for piquing my interests to do so Bruce-- see his post, How Important is "Place"? ). Though his lecture focuses entirely on the Pacific Northwest and the Seattle region in particular, there are two things about Driscoll's lecture that make it something well worth your time to listen to and interact with:

First, Mark models a paradigm of missiological analysis that every pastor and church planter should learn to practice for themselves. It is clear that he has done the hard work of understanding demographics and cultural trends (something few people sacrifice the time and sweat to do); and he is able to process demographic data and synthesize it for the purpose of asking how the Gospel can penetrate culture. Moreover, he is modeling how to create long term strategy-- instead of wasting his time and his people's time by trying to chase after a moving target. Wisdom should teach us to ask: where will this culture be in ten years?

Second, Mark hits on a cultural trend that is tragically overlooked by all of us. Specifically, he speaks on church planting focus and location as they apply to the growing trend of transience in the United States. We need to strategize how to plant healthy, growing, churches that can function with the knowledge that people simply aren't going to be part of their church forever. Having moved five times in the last six years, I for one should know this-- but I never thought about in quite in the terms that Mark talked about.

Mark suggests that the most naive thing he hears young planters say is that they're planting for "this community" Which community? The area people live? The area they work? Or the area they play? They are all quite different, and we have to keep in mind that the area people are living in will be different in three years. Consequently, Mark exhorts planters to think broader and more in terms of region-- transcending the silly idealistic notion that people today live as if they don't have cars.

Comments

[James Paul]

Listened to this a couple weeks ago. Great stuff for anyone interested in understanding how the church interfaces with cultural shifts.

There are more dogs than people in Seattle. Mark humorously speculates that if he were a sociologist 2000 years from now he would conclude that 21st century Seattle was ruled by dogs. Humans were slaves, working 50-60 hours a week allowing their four-footed masters to rule the "dog house" undisturbed until the humans returned to walk them and pick up their poop.

Yip...it's obvious that missiology is a passion to MD. Kevin, thanks for reminding me of the implications for church plants in ultra-transient regions.

[Bruce]

Yeah I found it quite challenging for myself to get a better missiological handle on our area in Mindarie. It really does take time and a fair bit of hard work to track the stats and take in and process the distinctives around us.

I'm off to do some diggin'!

[kyle]

i hear him, and notice it a lot more now that i live in vancouver...although where i am, there are a lot of people with no car.

[Bob Hyatt]

I can remember a time when (I think) Mark would have answered "no" to the question, "If I move, can I still go to your church." :)

I was talking to him in December of 2000, and he told me that when he discerned that someone was driving to their sunday gatherings from a considerable distance, he would tell them to quit doing that- to find something in their neighborhood.

I realize people change their opinions, sometimes drastically and sometimes in the space of just a few short years... But I'm always interested in why.

[Kevin Cawley]

Bob--

Frst off, welcome to typepad!

I have recently changed my mind on lots of things-- and I would assume that this process will continue throughout my life. The why is always important, and personally, my why is that I have given up some ideals that I held too way too tightly, and have tried to come to terms with life in the real world. Perhaps this is the type of thing that is motivating Mark's change, or perhaps he feels he has come to a deeper understanding of his own culture since you talked to him five years ago.

Let's avoid the psychoanalysis on Mark's change and address a different question: You're planting in a similar context as Mark is-- do you think that his analysis accurately represents the cultural context?

Are people in our current culture bound by geography within larger urban centers? If no-- which is what Mark seems to suggest-- is this something that you believe the Gospel seeks to correct and reform?

And, at Evergreen, if you have folks driving 30 min, do you suggest/require them to go elsewhere?

I always love your perspective brother.

[Bob Hyatt]

ahhh... but the psychoanalysis is so much fun... :)

"do you think that his analysis accurately represents the cultural context?"

Sure... We don't plant for geographics as much as demographics- people groups. If I say "We're planting a church for north Portland" that's really just code... shorthand for saying we're trying to reach certain types of people. These days the word "community" says very little about geographics and much, much more about all those other factors.

"Are people in our current culture bound by geography within larger urban centers?"

I think they would like to be... I know everyone I talk to would like to be a part of a church within walking distance of them- NO ONE says they enjoy driving... But if the church that makes sense to them is not within a short distance/their neighborhood, they are willing to drive... But nobody WANTS to go to church across town.

"If no-- which is what Mark seems to suggest-- is this something that you believe the Gospel seeks to correct and reform?"

Well... I don't know if it's a gospel issue per se- But it may be. Does the Gospel lead us to be concerned for certain geographic places? I think it might... Let's talk more about this- Tell me more about what you are asking (It's really early in the morning... brain not working right yet...)

"And, at Evergreen, if you have folks driving 30 min, do you suggest/require them to go elsewhere?"

I have suggested it to some :)
We have people driving from Vancouver (1/2 hour north), Salem (40 minutes south), Newberg (30-40 mnutes west) and Estacada (40 minutes east)... It's not ideal. It's not what I expected would happen- I thought we'd be more of a neighborhood kind of church... But when you are doing something "different"...

To me, it's simply a great impetus for church planting. I don't WANT people to be a part of evergreen and coming to our sunday gatherings from Salem. The only way I can fix that is to plant a church down there (since there's nothing like evergreen happening there).

We moved our sunday gathering recently and it brought us closer to 2/3rds of our people and further away from 1/3. I see that 1/3 as the nucleus of a new church maybe next Fall... out in the beaverton/Hillsboro area.

Let's keep talking about this... I think this is a huge issue for the modern church and church planters...